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David McWilliams - Q&A

Submitted by David McWilliams | Economist on Monday, 29 June 2009 | Category: General

David McWilliams

David McWilliams has been asking difficult questions of some of the most influential and thought provoking characters of recent times, so we thought it would be interesting to turn the tables and invited you to put your questions to him. We were delighted with the response so thank you to everyone who sent in a question. We guessed he wouldn’t be short of a few words and we weren’t disappointed.

Here’s what he had to say to your most popular questions.


Question:
 In the event of Irish banks being nationalised are they actually any safer in state ownership given our ever increasing exchequer deficits and ailing economy?

David: That’s a good question and goes right to the nub of the issue. There are two views on this. One is that the State can’t just keep co-opting into ownership of every sick, unwanted bank that shows up. Otherwise the State will be on the hook for all the banks’ liabilities, which are likely to be between €40 billion and €60 billion (or 10%-15% of the loan book). This view suggests with some reason that the State will not be able to pay this cash or even finance it. And therefore, the banks contaminate the sovereign. The second view is that we’ve no choice. If there was to be a run on the banks the State would have to pick up the tab anyway. I think we might have escaped that fate for a while at least. Either way, we’re going to be paying for the sins of our banks for a long time.

Question: Will the current economic and financial crisis result in a shift of World trade to Asian countries and could that leave the Western economies struggling to return to growth?

David: Yes, I believe that this process is well and truly irreversible. I spent about a month in Asia in March 2009 and have become increasingly resigned to this. It doesn’t mean that it will all be plain sailing there either as they have to wean themselves off their ‘export fetish’ and start spending some of their cash rather than saving. The whole adjustment from this crisis will be based on the Chinese in particular spending more. We’ll see how they get on. Expect lots of tension between the US and China.

Question: I think this current rally is a bluff in the stock markets. In your opinion, are we facing years of foreclosures?

David: I think we’re going to see a serious debt crisis next year as interest rates start to rise and it becomes apparent that we have been lumbered with a massive debt problem at the long end of the yield curve. The precedents are not good. On the other hand, the stock market is an interesting play at the moment and if you have the stomach to trade, you might do well.

Question: Europe is demographically an ageing continent. With that and Peak Oil, how can the Ponzi Scheme of everlasting growth be possible?

David: The twin issue of energy – peak everything – not just oil and the fact that we are getting older are absolutely the key to everything. Economic growth comes usually from cheap labour, cheap energy and cheap capital. In Europe we have only one of those three, cheap capital; so the limitations of the growth model are evident. But don’t rule out a big technological improvement in green technology. I believe this will be the next big bubble in financial markets and could easily prove to be the beginning of a new industrial revolution. 

Question: What would you do now to stabilise the banking sector and specifically the Anglo Irish problem?

David: The Anglo affair is just a mess. It’s of no systemic importance and should be allowed to go. The idea that we, the Irish State, can indefinitely protect bondholders in Anglo is a joke and the bank should be wound down so that when the guarantee lapses, it’s not a problem.

Question: In your opinion is the Irish economy at risk to super inflation in the near future?

David: We’re actually risking the opposite, which is terrifying. The problem for Ireland is deflation and no country has ever tried to do what we are doing, which is to deflate our way to growth. The world ex EMU might well have inflation to deal with which will make the Euro stronger against the dollar and that’s further bad news for us. So all told, inflation would be good for us but we won’t get it.

Question: Both AIB and BOI shares are rallying at present, both passed the €2 mark and are climbing daily, is this sustainable in your opinion given the threat of nationalisation for these banks or are we looking at a slump due to profit taking?

David: The threat of nationalisation comes when the world realises we don’t have the money for NAMA. On that score, there was a big positive last week when Michael Sommers let it slip that the bonds which the banks will issue to cover the hole in their balance sheets will be redeemed for cash by the ECB. This means that I was wrong and the threat of nationalisation is fading. In effect we have secured the services of a ‘Sugardaddy’ in the shape of the ECB.

Question: Are we in the eye of the perfect storm or are those shoots of recovery, of which Mr Cowen speaks of, really visible?

David: There are no green shoots. That lad didn’t see any of this coming, I’m not too sure that he is the best placed to see the recovery. Not for a while yet.
 
Question: When do you see an upturn in the market, do you think we’ve bottomed out and what in your opinion are the best investments for the next 12 months?

David: I’m very bullish on Green Technology and Rare Earth Stock. What I mean by Rare Earth Stocks are the commodities which will benefit from Green Technology. I’d still be bullish on nuclear stock, but it’s a trade for the brave.

Question: Do you think the property market has bottomed out, I've read your articles saying otherwise but it seems like house prices are down by 40%-50% in Dublin so I can't imagine there is much further to go. I know in Sweden they fell by as much as 80%, would it be wise to wait another year? 

David: I think property will continue to fall in Ireland for a few years and that undoubtedly another 30% drop is not only likely but a practical racing certainty. Property will fall until yield hit about 7%. That would imply a fall of more than 30% from here.

Question: I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on how you think NAMA will work out. Do you think it’s a good or bad idea?

David: I was an early advocate of the idea of a ‘financial skip’ on the basis that it was the only way of saving the banks who have behaved appallingly. It’s not ideal in any way. Indeed in my opinion it’s criminal that we are on the hook for their greed, but that’s the way. If they let Anglo go under, I feel that it will help enormously as Anglo’s book will not need to be in NAMA. It will take about ten years to unravel as the State will not be in any hurry to see the banks writing down huge losses, particularly when the banks will still have problems raising private capital. I think it will succeed, but the costs will be very high in terms of banking charges in Ireland for the next few years so it’s not good for growth. NAMA might succeed but the costs will be huge.

Question: I know you don’t have all the answers but I’ve read your work for a long time and have always been interested in your opinion. Any thoughts on how you think the Irish banking landscape will look in two years time?

David: Very tricky. NAMA gives the banks a free lunch particularly now since the ECB will buy the bonds issued by the banks for cash. This means that they’ll have cash but it doesn’t necessarily mean they will lend it out. Without the accelerator of property these banks are just like expensive utilities and therefore low growth stocks.


All of the views expressed in this blog are purely the personal views of David McWilliams and are based on his personal experiences and knowledge at the time of writing. No responsibility will be taken by RaboDirect for any content contained in any post, neither does RaboDirect represent or warrant the content of any post. For more information:  Legal

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49 Comments

Comment by Utility_Predator on 02-07-2009 02:16 | Quote


I'm thinking of buying Eircom Holdings, the Australian listed fund. How much should I pay for it?

Comment by Concerned on 02-07-2009 08:55 | Quote


I am constantly hearing predictions of further property price falls of X percent. My concern lies in the fact that it is never stated if this means X percent of the current value or X percent of the value at the height of the boom.

It would be most useful to know to which figure the percentage fall refers.

Comment by Concerned Too! on 06-07-2009 01:52 | Quote


Hi Concerned, I also questioned that and have not had any definitive answer! However I think it is more than likely that is always based on current prices, a further 30% drop on a house that was valued at 300k at the peak would mean a another 90k off a house that is probably worth less than 200k now, if basing it on peak values. I could be wrong but thats my take on it!

Comment by simon moylan on 06-07-2009 06:44 | Quote


Hi , what are your views on the Bank of England & interest rates, will we see a rise to the late eighties or a gradual increase to mid 5 %

Comment by steve on 07-07-2009 06:14 | Quote


is it a good idea at the moment to be paying into avc's?

Comment by Dermot Healy on 08-07-2009 01:36 | Quote


Hi David,
There is speculation that a new world reserve currency will be pushed through by the China,Russia etc. Part of the consequences may be a worldwide devaluation of debt and fiat currencies.
How do we protect ourselves from such devaluation? Physical or ETF Gold?
Am I missing any other defence against what is coming at all of us?
Dermot Healy


Comment by Dee on 09-07-2009 02:03 | Quote


How would you get this economy going? We need people with vision here.
Yes we can!
Dee

Comment by Finbar on 11-07-2009 11:57 | Quote
Concerned Too! wrote:

Hi Concerned, I also questioned that and have not had any definitive answer! However I think it is more than likely that is always based on current prices, a further 30% drop on a house that was valued at 300k at the peak would mean a another 90k off a house that is probably worth less than 200k now, if basing it on peak values. I could be wrong but thats my take on it!


Hi Concerned Too,

It is no surprise to me that another contributor has experienced the same problem - i.e. does a prediction of a further fall of, for example, 30% in house prices mean 30% of current or boom price. Nobody that I have spoken to seems to know for sure! And it is a frighteningly relevant question for those who are waiting for the bottom of the market to be reached.

If only commentators could say those magic words "of the current value" or "of the value at the height of the boom".

Regards,

Still Concerned.

Comment by Debra on 13-07-2009 05:24 | Quote


Hi,
I have bought shares in AIB and BOI at 1.30 euro's per share. When you think would be a good time to sell them? Should I hold on to them for the longhaul or sell?
Thanks,
Debra

Comment by Nemes_ie on 14-07-2009 09:17 | Quote


David writes sense again.

Comment by Pete on 15-07-2009 01:38 | Quote


David said
"a fall of more than 30% from here."
That clearly means a fall on 30% of the current price.

Anyway, the numbers are not hard to work out for yourself. Start with wanting a 7% yield and work backwards to what a house is actually worth.

You might also want to factor in a significant drop in rent. Y'know, I can remember saying a couple of years ago that oversupply of housing would result in falling rents, and being told I was an idiot because "rents never fall". Revenge is sweet.

You might also want to factor in the tendency of markets to overshoot. So when hosue prices fall to fair value (7% yield) they might just keep falling, particularly if the banks still won't lend and unemployment is still high and the market is still oversupplied etc. etc.

Based on experience, the time to buy a house will be when everyone tells you that owning property is a mugs game, that they'll never buy a house, that they'll rent forever. When all hope for, or interest in, property is gone, and the media no longer bother to mention it, and home ownership is not something anyone aspires to,is the time to fill your boots. Ireland is not there yet.


Comment by Daddy P on 15-07-2009 10:28 | Quote


I notice that at least some stock brokers are giving outperform on several stocks. Do they really believe what they are saying or are they just looking for commission?

Comment by Frank on 15-07-2009 11:06 | Quote


I recall hearing a professor of economics {on matt cooper's radio show]predicting back in late 2007 that he expected house prices to drop by 70%-80% from their peak.He was ridiculed by many at the time....So,a house that was selling for 450k back then will be selling for approx €90k-€135k when the market 'bottoms out'.If the banks start repossessing like expected in the autumn,you will see a huge decrease in a short period of time.

Comment by Jimmy on 16-07-2009 04:46 | Quote


Forget about yield..house prices will come down to affordability,.I remember I bought my first apartment in New York in 1991 for $52k,the previous owner bought it in 1985 for $130+k.Here in Ireland it will come down to getting out at any cost,400k houses will be selling for 80-100k.Its happening in Rathowen Co.Westmeath houses that were selling for 240k are now being sold for 75k and the scary thing is they are not selling!!!!!

Comment by Disillusioned on 16-07-2009 04:46 | Quote


I've just sold my only home (which was abroad) and opened an account in Anglo Irish to have the proceeds of the sale transferred there. Did I make wrong decision? I'm a little concerned.

Comment by Maria on 16-07-2009 08:22 | Quote


I have money invested in Property Investment Portfolio Bonds and I have lost over €50,000 in a year. I still have 2 years to go. Is there any hope that it will ever start to increase again even in the next 2 or 3 years?

Comment by Ger Coughlan on 16-07-2009 08:35 | Quote


I read 'Shock Doctrine' by Naoimi Klein last year. I think everybody in the country should be made to read it as it foretold the whole Bord Snip report. I wonder what David thinks of the book?

Comment by pat on 16-07-2009 09:00 | Quote


David I am a fan,I like your style, but I do not feel you answered the first question,are the banks any safer nationalised.

Comment by Martin on 16-07-2009 10:57 | Quote


Hi David,
If you wre minister for finance how would you handle are public finance in order to turn around the economy?

Comment by Financial Regulator 2009 on 16-07-2009 12:13 | Quote


David, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the culture of regulation in this country and whether the Central Bank and the Regulator will learn anything from the current crisis. It appears to me that the retirement of the Regulator is a token gesture that masks the major problems at the top level of the organisation.

Comment by John on 16-07-2009 12:23 | Quote


I fully agree that Anglo Irish bank should be let go.

Comment by Timithy on 20-07-2009 04:08 | Quote



David,

Do you think countries like Bulgaria will come out of this recession sooner than Ireland and property in Bulgaria is a good to long term investment.

Comment by Marian on 20-07-2009 11:59 | Quote


Well done Rabo, for bringing this useful question and answer forum with David Williams. Well done Rabo via ACC bank for requiring the developer to pay back his loan. Why should the big guys be allowed to not pay back loans?

Comment by Pete on 21-07-2009 10:21 | Quote


David,
Given the rate at which Ireland, the UK and the US are borrowing money, which will screw their taxpayers for years to come, which english-speaking country is likely to offer the best after-tax standard of living to ordinary people over the next 10 years? I'm guessing Australia.

Comment by MARK on 24-07-2009 12:10 | Quote


David,
Big fan.
Are you compromised given the website?Is Rabo the safe bank and if not which are the safe banks for deposits?What's your opinion on credit unions?

Comment by Dermot Boyle on 27-07-2009 09:58 | Quote


David,
we have recently opened a deposit account with Rabo.Given the recent media coverage over Acc bank and Rabos apparent aggressive attempts to cut their obvious losses in Ireland, is there any worry over deposits if it all goes wrong or are we covered under a similar bank guarantee with the Netherland ?s

Comment by Carmel Walsh on 28-07-2009 08:59 | Quote
steve wrote:

is it a good idea at the moment to be paying into avc's?


I have money deposited with Rabo, I would like to know if my money is guaranteed or is there a safer option.

Comment by Roel van Veggel | General Manager RaboDirect on 29-07-2009 10:57 | Quote


RaboDirect has NO plans to leave Ireland. We’re in a really positive and stable position. We’re holding our own and looking forward to building further on our really strong position in Ireland as the straight talking online bank, offering simple and transparent savings and investment products to many more customers. Recently the ratings agencies Standard & Poor’s and DBRS reaffirmed Rabobank’s AAA credit rating in their recent updates in June 2009 and July 2009. Great news for RaboDirect and Rabobank in general particularly in these turbulent times. There’s been a lot of media attention around ACCBank recently. And yes, we are owned by the same parent, the Rabobank Group, but we operate independently of ACCBank. We have a separate management team, different business strategies, a completely different business model and separate profit & loss accounts. We are also covered directly under the Rabobank group and fall under the Dutch deposit guarantee system. RaboDirect is not involved in loans business to the Irish property sector or has no involvement in corporate loan business for that matter. We have always and will continue to focus on offering simple savings accounts and mutual funds online, 24/7, 365 days a year. And we plan to do that for many more years to come. Simple as that.

Comment by jono on 31-07-2009 06:27 | Quote


Hi David

I'm a small business owner searching for a positive in the Anglo and banking debarcle. Two questions:
1. Could Anglo be sold in the current international market if its development debt was first taken by NAMA or would there be nothing left? could this be a way of adding international competition back into the Irish market or have we copmpletely burned that bridge.
2. Would NAMA consider 'selling' some of its new property portfolio to small business for owner occupancy at attractive (state sponsored) interest rates (perhaps interest only). This would help support small business and make the loans perform, albeit at a low return, until recovery of the economy.

Comment by KATE on 03-08-2009 02:46 | Quote


hiw high are mortgage interest rates likely to increase to in the next twelve months?

Comment by English Granny on 05-08-2009 01:12 | Quote


I retired to S Ireland a few years ago and have a substantial amount invested in pounds sterling with Anglo Irish Bank.
I have been offered 1.4% to re-invest my monies with them. I've tried investing it in England but have been told I have to have an address there. Is there an alternative place to invest my savings safely?

Comment by John wolfe on 05-08-2009 10:06 | Quote


Do you think N.A.M.A. could be challened legally .Do you think that N.A.M.A recieving money from the Goverment is in breach of E.U. law namely State Aid Articles 86 -87 .Do you believe the people of Ireland are entilted to decide this banking crisis by Referendum

Comment by Joe B. on 08-08-2009 11:06 | Quote


Hi David,
If the bank Bond and Shareholders are being baled out by the taxpayer and they sell at a profit on some future date should there be a levy on their profits in return for the bale-out?

Comment by up the dubs on 10-08-2009 09:17 | Quote


do you really think that a house selling for maybe 650 to 700 euro in 2006 will sell in 12 months time for 250euro in 2010?

Comment by Mike on 12-08-2009 11:35 | Quote


Why are rabo's rates no longer competitive? Are the other banks overpaying (out of desparation) or is rabo trading off people's ignorance, now that they have a brand position in the market?

Comment by Laura on 13-08-2009 02:37 | Quote


One thing I've constantly felt about the property market in ireland is that the overall hyperinflation conflicted with massive discrepancies in the qulaity and placement of individual developments. One thing I notice in particular is how massive inflation of prices ouside of the tradition hinterland in Dublin, Cork and Galways in particular occured despite many of these homes being built in areas with poor infrastructure and no sustainable transport systems to the cities they feed.

Does David feel that the current property price falls will continue, as they currently do, to be an across the board fall? Or will we start to see "micromarket" developments where houses in places outside of the main cities collapse due to the final dawning that they are simply not sustainable as commuter homes for those cities?

Comment by Roel van Veggel | General Manager RaboDirect on 13-08-2009 11:09 | Quote


Hi Mike,

Thanks for your comment. Just a few things on this, our rates are still competitive as long as you compare apples with apples: with our on demand Savings Account, which gives you 24/7 access to your money online with simple and non restrictive T&C’s, the rate is not that bad. And when you look at our Term Deposit rates over the longer terms, we’re actually one of the more competitive providers in the market if you should wish to put your savings away for a little while.

In relation to your question about the other banks ‘overpaying (out of desperation); it is my view that in most cases in the current market there is a certainly a clear relation to risk and return. In this current climate, banks tend to offer high deposit rates to attract deposits to meet the higher funding demands they have. The current rates from RaboDirect reflect its very sound triple A rating and the security we can provide to you as a saver. Our on demand rate of 2%, remains at 100% basis points above the current ECB rate of 1%.

By the way, be sure not to be fooled by the many headline rates out there. They look great but many of them have quite limiting T&C’s. It is, of course, your money and you’re free to choose where you put it. But if you are looking for fair rates, decent and transparent products, backed by one of the safest banks in the world, we’re not such a bad place to deposit your savings.

Roel


Comment by Bruce on 15-08-2009 10:01 | Quote


Two issues:
First, I cannot foresee this Government having the political will to implement all or the majority of the Bord 'Snip' proposals. Therefore, we will end up being financed and regulated by the IMF...i.e. the Govt can then try to manoevre an external body into taking the flak from the public for it's own incompetence. Better to do it now then, rather than drift at E400 million borrowing a week.

Second, we have, as I write, a challenge by the High Court [via a re-application by Zoe Developments, which has been entertained by a guy with the name of De Valera!] to the efficacy of the judgement of the Supreme Court. If it should succeed it will set the precedent of a lower court making a mockery of the highest court in the land.

Events become more bizarre [and dangerous] by the day.

Comment by heide on 20-10-2009 10:30 | Quote


Dear David,
thanks for your clear words on the financial crisis. Please keep us also informed in future. We need people like you. Thanks again.
Heide

Comment by Emo on 03-11-2009 01:23 | Quote
MARK wrote:

David,
Big fan.
Are you compromised given the website?Is Rabo the safe bank and if not which are the safe banks for deposits?What's your opinion on credit unions?


I have deposit accounts with a relation in Anglo which were put in for 30 day notice period. We recently checked the interest rates and were suprised that they had dropped from 3.75% to 1.75% approx (ear). We were not informed that this would happen but were given better quotes in a similiar arrangement.

We were just suprised that we were not contacted about the change in the rate is this legal?

Comment by sharon williams on 10-12-2009 04:41 | Quote


my grandmother was irish and i done some study on her name williams and i found out that it was mcwilliams that they dropped mc when her family come to the usa to keep from being discriminated against

Comment by Concetto La Malfa on 17-12-2009 04:17 | Quote


David,
Given that cuts in social welfare were necessary, don’t you think that these cuts could have been achieved in a different way? For example, a recently carried out investigation exposed fraudulent abuses of the social welfare system which could amount to 1 in 7 or, conservatively, 1 in 10 fraudulent recipients to the tune of 1 to 3 billion euros. It would, therefore, have been enough to tackle and stem out these abuses to achieve the goal of saving on the social welfare bill, without applying the only too convenient, draconian “across the board” shortcut.
Secondly, given that the Irish economic crisis is primarily rooted in the lack of any form of control and regulatory system by the government, don’t you think that if rent control alone had been introduced at the beginning of the Celtic Tiger, perhaps developers, builders, banks and government might have acted with moderation and not allow such an astronomical rise in house prices, thus limiting all sorts of speculations and profiteering which caused the collapse of the construction industry, and with it, of the Irish Economy.
Thirdly, I often hear that the cost of living in steadily going donw in Ireland. I would like to ask how on earth can one make such statement. Are those who are stating this basing their analysis on the fact that Marks and Spencer now offer dinners for two for merely €12.50 or that one can buy a shirt for only €8 in Penney’s? What about the all the other costs which are still some of the highest, in many cases, the highest in Europe. Let us consider items such as, commercial and private rents, private health insurance premiums, motor tax, car insurance, electricity, gas, dentists’ charges, public transport, petrol, car wash charges, parking fees, clamp release charges, TV License, TV Channel Services Connection fees, mobile phone call charges, restaurant prices down to the exorbitant price of espresso coffees, etc…
These are real items of expense in every day living which are still there, glowing in their exorbitance and certainly not decreasing.
Concetto La Malfa


Comment by Gina McCrudden | Investments Marketing Manager on 21-12-2009 06:02 | Quote


Big thanks to everyone who took the time to read, comment or send questions to us on David’s blog.
We hope you found the answers he provided useful.

David has finished responding to questions for now, but if you’ve any other comments or opinions you’d like to share - be our guest.


Comment by paddyj on 22-12-2009 07:24 | Quote


Ireland is a bad place to invest money at the moment, the stock market will not go up for years to come, deposit rates will be low for a while and property will fall by another 30%. Rabos' investment accounts look to be the only way to invest in global stocks at a low entry and exit. If you have cash at the moment and very few have don't buy a house don't leave it on deposit invest in Euro large stocks not IRE or UK.

Comment by henrylow on 26-12-2009 09:56 | Quote


Influence can be defined as the power exerted over the minds and behavior of others. A power that can affect, persuade and cause changes to someone or something. In order to influence people, you first need to discover what is already influencing them. What makes them tick? What do they care about? We need some leverage to work with when we’re trying to change how people think and behave.

www.onlineuniversalwork.com

Comment by noreen g on 15-02-2010 01:09 | Quote


concerning the Greek fears of default.Could consumer power be harnessed in EU countries in order to encourage a surge in Greek exports, to aid them in their fiscal difficulties?
I think that consumers hold enormous power in their choices of how they spend their money.Maybe if the EU involved it's citiziens more politically it would have the ability to rally support from a mass individual response.
If Ireland is the main trader with GB could it have a duel currency with no extra bank fee for the priviledge?
The banks and the EU owe us some concession. This might suit the boarder problem and protect the German interest
Just testing the unthinkable. Why not?








Comment by paddyos on 28-03-2010 05:23 | Quote


David ,if you were to buy gold bullion,what price would you pay to get in.Also why are you not appearing on PRIME TIME,and Vincent Brown's program.KEEP SPEAKING OUT.GOD BLESS YOU DAVID,PADDY

Comment by robert on 27/07/2010 07:19 | Quote


could you please tell me how money is created in the irish banking system ie monetery or fiat system and would it be true to say all money in our system is creadted from debt ty vm

Comment by Gina McCrudden, RaboDirect on 29/07/2010 07:40 | Quote


Hi Robert,

Thanks for your comment, we're sorry to say David is no longer available to answer questions on this post.

But...we have new faces appearing on the blog all the time, so keep an eye on the site as we may have another guest blogger who can help with this or any other questions you have up your sleeve.

Thanks again for taking the time to drop us a line. Gina

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